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Talk:Garen/@comment-5732636-20140429040022/@comment-5606883-20140507072307
I agree with most things you said but… the Kayle counters. As my 2nd most played champion, I can say that some of those are –very- easy lanes for Kayle to win if she knows what she's doing. Good counters= * Renekton (his Q will not help heal the poke she puts on you, but also help push the wave out so you don’t get stuck under your tower as easily. His stun, along with any hard-CC, is terrifying when you’re playing Kayle. His ult beat her ult if you can stay ontop of her with Slice/Dice.) * Jax (Be smart with how you use your E and jump on her constantly pre-lvl6 to get an autoattack or 2 off on her and then duck into the brush to drop minion agro and stop her from getting a free Q+autoattacks off. This should only be done when Kayle is close to the top of the lane, near the brushes.) * Xin Zhao (Worked as a pretty good counter in S2. Be careful about your team comp. though. Most Xin’s only fit a team when they’re the jungler in the current meta. But once you get lvl 2 you can jump on her and knock her up for some good harass and gain lane-dominance.) * Irelia (Good gap closer, good form of healing, and nice CC. Build an early Specter Cowl and you should have no problem in this lane. Good thing about this matchup is thanks to Kayle wanting to harass with autoattacks, you can almost always guarantee a stun with your E.) * Jayce (Very annoying to play against as Kayle. Jump on her in Hammer form, slam her with your spells and an autoattack or two, then kick her away and speedgate to get out of range, send a Q through the speedgate if you have a clear shot afterwards. Pretty straightforward matchup.) * Kennen (Poke poke poke. His stun is very nice and he out ranges her.) * Lee Sin (Same idea as Jayce, go in with Q to harass and put some damage on her then Safeguard away. Take advantage of the fact that you use energy and Kayle uses mana to keep forcing trades on her to make her go OOM. * Yorick (Same idea as Kennen, poke Kayle to death) * Pantheon (Q poke is deadly top-lane and your stun-gap closer is great against her. Get an early Hexdrinker and this lane is yours, play aggressively early levels and try to force an all-in at lvl 2 or 3.) * Zed (Learn how to land your Q’s and you should have a good time in this lane. Never use your ult until you see Kayle use her’s. Once her ult is about to wear off, cast your ult so you can get the full damage and use of it. Just like Lee Sin, abuse the fact that you use energy and not mana, so keep forcing trades with her if it’s safe to do so to make her OOM.) Can-be counters= * Riven (If you’re good at Riven and know how to weave autoattacks inbetween her combo effectively, i.e. continually Q while autoattacking and using W effectively, then you can beat Kayle. The problem is, if you’re just a casual Riven player, after her nerfs to her shield she is at a huge disadvantage against Kayle’s damage output b/c all she has to do is wait for it to disappear. Also, most new and average Riven players have very predictable ults, they try to save it as a 100% pure execution once the enemy gets out of melee range. There is nothing inherently wrong with that thinking- it’s a ranged spell that does more damage the lower hp they have- but with Kayle, she can easily time her ult to negate it. Good Riven players will blast their ult in the middle of their combo when Kayle is about ½hp because its unexpected, it’s better to get –some- damage on her ult than –no- damage.) * Zac (Never played this matchup as Kayle, but with the changes to Zac’s blob range with his passive, I see him as an unsafe pick b/c I think Kayle can easily just Q + E him to death or out of lane. Might be good but his bad gapcloser, as in the knockup is hard to land when the enemy can see you coming, and short range makes me say “no.”) * Malphite (Mehh. He probably won’t die to Kayle but I don’t see any kill potential. The best you can hope for is to farm up and out-tank her.) * Yasuo (You have to be a skilled Yasuo player to snowball off this lane. His windwall won’t help you against Kayle’s E because there is no projectile with her autoattack so it can go through his shield, you can still block her Q though. So you are vulnerable to harass but your ult can be a lane-changer IF you can land it. With Kayle’s W speed boost it’s really easy to dodge those long range Q’s, and if you start dashing in- it’s pretty obvious what you are attempting to do so she’ll start backing off and kiting. Winnable lane, but make sure you know what you’re doing with Yasuo.) Bad counters= *Fiora (Fifi isn’t a very reliable champion. She’s either 1v5ing the enemy team or dying to a support Teemo, there isn’t much middle ground. And Fifi can be easily harassed by Kayle b/c while her Q is a gap closer, it’s not very effective b/c she has no form of CC to follow up with it. Kayle’s Q will more than counter the small speed boost Fifi’s E will give her. Not a good choice unless you’re a –very- good Fifi player.) * Shyvanna (She is one of my go-to top laners when I need to play a tank. But with Kayle’s Q being a targeted slow, Shyvanna’s gap closer pre-6 is pretty non-existent since Kayle’s Q is a shorter cooldown. Then once Shy gets her ult, Kayle can pretty easily Q+W to get out of your range in less than a second. Unless Kayle makes mistakes during laning phase, this will be a very hard matchup to get ahead in.) * Olaf (Back in S1 and S2 with the OP Olaf, Kayle was considered to be one of his only counters. That hasn’t changed. Axes are easy to dodge, can Q him to avoid Reckless Swings and just E him to death. When he uses his Ult she can just W away and wait it out, then she has the advantage again.) * Darius (One of the easiest lanes to win as Kayle. Q him and if he starts walking closer to you, he’s trying to use his E to grab you so you can easily avoid it. Push him in with E. And if he misses his Apprehend, which is easy to dodge as Kayle, Q+E him to make him hate his life. His ult is one of the most predictable ults in the game, and easily countered by Kayle’s ult. Bad matchup.)